I think most people seem to agree that almost $13 is way too much for a video that you a) can’t go back to if you happen to lose your internet connection even for a moment b) can’t download and view whenever you want c) can’t know what will be covered in until you pay and d) won’t get anything earthshakingly unique out of. In a time when more or less $13 will get you more content than you can cope with, the pricing and restrictions aren’t fair. The Bellydance Rhythms DVD I’m working with these days costs just one dollar more. But it has 40 zippy drum solo combinaitons that are doing great things to my dancing each day. The fact that you can rewind and fast forwrd Ansuya’s online video is hardly a USP. Not when you get it for a single session.
Nope… I give it a miss. Ansuya has wonderful aspects to her dance, but there are also many I’m uncomfortable with and always have been.
Ok, so my eyes weren’t fooling me. That looks terrible. She seems like a lovely person, so I feel bad saying this, but I can’t imagine that this is proper form. No, no, no.
Yes, I felt bad putting that up and wouldn’t have if it hadn’t been something I’ve been noticing for a long time. She does seem nice. Fun as well.
I’ve always wondered whether one can learn a lot from watching stills from videos. I rather suspect you can. It won’t always be flattering, but if you notice, you’ll find that good dancers are rarely caught in an ugly pose. Of course, in this case, it isn’t just the awkwardness of a mid-pose still. That posture shouldn’t be there at any phase of the movement.
Seems weird for a total novice like me to comment on this! Very out of place, in a way.
No, Mala, not weird. Here’s why.
First of all, there is something like connoisseurship. People go to the opera or to the ballet, and the more they see and hear of those arts, the more they learn how to judge what they see on the stage. They train their eyes and their ears, and become better at noticing when something ever-so-subtle is out of whack. It’s true that almost all of the people sitting in the Met or in the New York City Opera will never in their lives be able to produce those sounds or those movements, but a lot of them can criticize intelligently, and they’re perfectly right to do so.
Second, we learn dance by watching and imitating. That’s true in a class, but in a class the instructor can generally correct herself if she makes a mistake, and if she sees a student doing something wrong, she can correct the student verbally or even by placing her hands on, say, the shoulders or the arms. With video learning, form is so much more important! Every frame has to be perfect, because stopping, rewinding and re-watching are our only ways of correcting ourselves or judging our progress.
Hmmm not that I know a lot. Haha certainly less than you guys, and, Mala, you know you should always imagine me bowing Japanese style in front of my dvd master before adressing you respectfully
I think it might be these unflattering stills come from the fact Ansuya is layering many things, that – say – are normally not layered in Arab style dance. I think this particular one was a layering of snake arms, chest circles (or chest figure 8s?) and a twist in the lower body or something..
So could it be it looks strange because no one else does these moves? Just a thought..
Uhm I do not intend to sound disrespectful.. I do enjoy watching Ansuya dance, and I think she s got incredible skill in what she s doing – but much like many other US American dance gurus like Suhaila, Rachel, etc I feel all of them are performing their fantasy of Arab dance rather than actual Arab style bellydance.. I am not anti-innovation, and I respect their creativity. I like watching them every once in a while and once I m a bit advanced I ll try and learn from them I think
But I ll personally do with some caution, because I want to dance like the Egyptian film stars I have always admired, I want to dance with a bit of Samia s or Soheir s appeal. Haha it s unrealistic if you were to see my dancing, but one needs some ambition in life right
Ya and I m not sure (out of lack of anatomical knowledge) if this is bad posture which should be avoided, or if it s just her style I kind of like, but kind of also don’t.. and I ve never been especially crazy over the fact US grown learners now think Ansuya Rachel Suhaila and the others are THE bellydancers, when these dancers have not got that many of the moves nor way of execution little girls all over the Mideast admire for generations, and which are so characteristic of this dance..
what do you guys think?
Are these dancers for you actual Arab style or rather fusion/fantasy/futuristic dancers who happen to dance to Arab music? I would guess India geographically has always had better access to Arab sources and might be more influenced by the original Mideastern thing?
Like Arabs and Turks have watched Bollywood for years now
What exactly is she doing here? I had thought this was a nice idea, her classes, but I have to agree with you.
Irina, I also wonder if, because I’ve never been to a real class, I see more details in video instruction. Like hypersensitive. That’s how I happened to notice this posture from her earlier videos. It’s very prominent and uncomfortable-looking. Thankfully, it made me conscious of not making the same mistake. I guess it’s just a bad habit or something, but she should really still her videos and examine what’s happening.
That, and her snake arms are the only thing “off” that I noticed though.
Tami…:-) The classes would be a nice idea at about $4. Plus, these are “regular” combinations and it wouldn’t hurt a dancer to sort of give them away now and then. You know what I mean? If she gave away her Hot Combinations combos cheaply or in a format that could easily be pirated that would be a loss because those are distinctive and stunning combinations. But these are just regular stuff. Bunch o’ snake arms and shimmies and undulations and hip bumps. She can probably make many hundreds of these up each day.
And not very good recessionary pricing, I must say.
Dina: It seemed to me that she was doing it all the time, not just during layering.
Mala: I haven’t taken an immense number of classes, but I did begin with regular classes and I’ve taken workshops with some well-known dancers. And whether tribal, AmCab, or Egyptian, every teacher I’ve had has been picky about posture. Obviously, there’s a big difference between the dance posture you’ll learn in a Shareen el Safy workshop and the one you’ll practice in an Ariellah workshop, but the common denominator is that they’re straight, upright, proud, strong. One teacher (in Germany) could, with just a single look, let me know that my shoulders were getting up near my ears. Posture is the *first* thing a live instructor corrects — this is why it’s so shocking to see it done so strangely on an instructional video.
Ya I actually agree very much with the opera or ballet example..
Seldom they can cook world-class style themselves, but they ve got good taste and sensitivity.
or also restaurant critics you know.
I think the hyper sensitivity by a video learner is also a good point.
Quite so Irina. It don’t look good at all.
I also don’t think it’s about layering. See Sadie’s multi layering. She doesn’t lose her posture. Everything just goes — separately.
I think dance instructors will see a posture-error in much the same way as an editor looks once at a page and manages to pick out the one little comma that shouldn’t have been there. I once had a dance instructor (salsa) make a correction that left me stunned. He said, stop curling up your toes. Now where the heck did he notice my toes! I was having a tough enough time getting him to notice me at all and give me some feedback — I sure didn’t expect him to to notice my toes were slightly clawing to get a better grip. I think my shoes just didn’t fit well enough. Anyway, I was quite amazed.
I love my DVDs and get more out of them then I did when I took live classes. I like Ansuya but I am not comfortable with the deeper knee bend in her basic posture. I feel that going by Neon and Blanca and co. with the the straighter neutral position in basic posture feels and looks much better on my body.
Oh, does she have a deep knee bend? I didn’t notice that. I don’t do a very deep knee bend either. Isn’t that what’s called hyperextending?
Blanca and Neon and Sarah have a bend which doesn’t stick out for noticing — it looks more natural. Though Neon loves her solid sit position when doing her favorite reverse undulation.
Ya Ansuya has an extremely deep knee bend, and also an extreme “tuck under” I am not sure if it is anatomically advisable.
I noticed this first in the trailer to her beginner-friendly magic of bellydance dvd:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=PUckEHY1YV0&feature=related
i see there s now a teacher criticizing it!
Oh dear, all this makes me very nervous about my own form. I’ve been so focused on doing the moves, I don’t spend enough time correcting myself on form. I have to say, although I love tribal fusion, I’m not fond of the hunched shoulders I occasionally see on dancers like Ariellah.
Dina, I think the reason why dancers like Rachel and Suhaila are admired so much is because a) they are very athletic and are capable of incredible moves and b) when I look up bellydancing videos on Youtube from Arabic countries, the first ones to show up are not very good dancers – a bug of the search engine. Although I’ve seen some wonderful videos on vernetopole’s channel, from classic Arabic-language films. My favorite is the one where a cheeky girl is pestering a dour man in an empty palace.
ya true the bellydancers who show up first are Lebanese starlets. None of them I m especially fond of.. Nor the Turkish starlets..
Ya you are right these US dancers are in incredible control of their bodies, even if I am not personally fond of their interpretations in many cases (Suhaila especially).
Dont worry about your form too much – one needs to start SOMEWHERE right cant do everythng perfect from the beginning . although form is so important for keeping your joints and back safe, so better not compromise it for doing sharper moves.
Injury is never worth it, like I m a bit impaired in dancing (especially shimmying) due to a stupid old sports injury on the knee (overstrain caused it).
I also find the tribal pose a little “clenched” oftentimes.
And YEAH the classical dances are the best. Nowadays I am very fond of a dancer called Doua from Egypt I have only one music video of hers, and she s on a documentary called Bellydancers of Cairo if you re interested. I find her modern and great and natural:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8hawaBPQwLo
If you check out gypsy s channel she has TONS of old movie dances.
The channels by sbarack, baadrobot, something like lovley (or lovleyyou – spelled this way, i can let you know the exact name if you wish) have many many videos.
also zarakedanza ibelieve.
maaaany old and classic videos
Thanks Dina! I just looked up that classic video, and it turned out to be Samia Gamal. I looked her up, and found a ton of wonderful videos from classic Arabic movies.
Have you ever heard of a movie called (in English) “The Girl Who Wanted to Dance”? I saw this when I was five or six. The plot is about a young girl who wants to dance but her family won’t let her. For some reason I’m thinking it might be from Central Asia, because Bangladesh Television aired a lot of movies from the old Soviet Union. It’s a color movie, I remember.
Ok, I just looked at Doa’s video. I can’t tell if she’s a good dancer, because the video is too cluttered! It’s as though the cameraman was aiming for a western adult rock look and put in too many arty fades and montage. In comparison, Rachel Brice’s performance video has a lot of montage which make it frustrating for someone who just wants to appreciate every move, but as a piece of video art it works. This video just looks messy. You must have a very good eye to see past it.
I keep the knees soft and flexible. If I ‘sit’ or hold any stance in which the knees are bent too much, my body starts hollering at me. I don’t dance as well either.
Yes, me too. Yesterday I was trying a Bellydance Rhythms move in which you change level while doing a big shimmy and then come back up with two undulations. This needs you to be pretty steady– if you tip forward while doing the forward undulation, it will look terrible. Besides which you could well keel over on your nose. My knees did protest a bit. I’m wondering whether this is because they’re basically damaged or because they’re not used to that movement. I would LOVE to be able to do those sudden drop downs. Drrrrrop and up. Like Sera’s in East Coast.
LOL! Yeah, doing the Sera drop and up requires paramedics to be standing by jusssst in case.
I tried it a bit today.. it didn’t hurt too much but I did end up tipping forward a bit.
I actually followed along with the free trial online class. This is a typical Ansuya move, she’s layering snakey arms over a horizontal ribcage circle. These pics catch her with her chest released to the back. These are very unatractive pics… The movement was actually nice. The posture with the deep bend and tuck is essential for good range of motion in some of the movements, but not necessary ALL the time.
Hmm. Actually I’ve seen this posture on her often. Good thing she’s a great dancer otherwise!
Hey, Mala, here’s some news for you:
Suhaila Salimpour has started online classes, too.
Link: http://www.therealsuhaila.com/classes/
What do you think about it?
Promo Videos can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lukaszenko
What do I think???? I think I am super-excited! How amazing and fantastic. I’m busy checking this out; thank you sooooo much for the tip. I’m looking for the info on the class logistics – how much, how long, etc. Wow.
Then hopefully it won’t be like Ansuyas course. I remain a bit sceptic. Looking forward to your upcoming reviews on the latest WDNY DVDs.
I do hope she’s got the logistics and mechanics right for doing online classes. Pricing, mode of delivery and the amount a person can be free to learn at her own pace is going to be important. For some of us, far away from Suhaila and her workshops, it would be such a great opportunity, but it could fall through if it’s not done right.
One problem could be if it’s in the format we see in the preview. With so many people milling about, how is one going to figure out what we’re supposed to do? If the material for the online classes is just a lift off of regular classes, it won’t be optimized for distance learning. Know what I mean? On the one hand you will have the thrill of feeling actually part of her class – but how will you get focused content aimed at you?
Let’s see how it goes! I hope she does it brilliantly! There is only one Suhaila!
Here’s the discussion on bhuz.com about this topic:
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-dance-student-instructor-center/23556-suhaila-online-classes.html
I personally hope those online classes won’t affect the high quality productions of WDNY or any other high quality DVD producers… Because I can’t afford a 13 $ class every week.
I know what you mean. But a little voice inside my head stays sceptic because of the fact: Look at the size of the classes. How can she have the time to correct them all? This stinks a bit too much about making the fast money (like someone stated in the bhuz.com thread). My problem is, I didn’t saw any instructionals on the promo videos. Nothing.
And as far as I now (from a very good bellydancer friend of mine) she doesn’t break down moves very well on the dvds.
I ordered suhailas dvds anyway to make up my own opinion.
And what are the results like? People who’ve been through Suhaila’s classes?
The clips on youtube certainly don’t look like online-ready material.
I read the Bhuz thread. Lots of different views. let’s see what it’s like when the first online class goes up. interestingly much the same pricing as Ansuya. Are her classes working so well, I wonder?
The main opinion about the classes is, Suhaila technique is hard to learn on your own, without an instructor.
It’s not enough to have the dvds. That’s the problem.
We have a few instructors in Germany who teach Suhaila technique, but they’re too far away from where I live.
On the other hand I don’t want to pay so much money for a video class that doesn’t correct me.
I suppose many people are drawn to the online classes because they advertise with great names. Most of the people nowawadays are too lazy to read reviews or surf a little to find out which dvds they should buy. I think that’s one of the many reasons.
…doesn’t correct you and doesn’t stay in your possession. If we have, on top of all that, classes that will just be a filming of the actual class and a bit of voice-over, it will be horribly disappointing. I wonder when they’ll begin. for now people seem to be having trouble registering.
I’m not a big fan of the whole online dance class concept. Why would I pay for something that I can’t download and work with later? I can buy a dvd from WDNY or Cheeky Girls and use it forever.
BTW, I agree that those aren’t the most flattering photos of Ansuya. Her posture is appalling. Hopefully, she was in the middle of a chest circle when the photos were taken but, even so, it looks terrible.
Mala, you are right as always – that “collapsed chest” thing isn’t new to Ansuya. It almost seems to be her signature style.
While I enjoy watching Ansuya perform there are many things about her style that don’t appeal to me. Often, it seems like she is doing too much at one time. (My husband says she moves too fast). Also, her “shoulders back, deep knee bend, exaggerated tuck” stance is not appealing and definitely NOT something seen on many other dancers. It is also a posture that I do not wish to imitate and was one of my pet peeves about of Ansuya’s layering and zill dvds. They all had nice content but one had to be cautious to avoid copying her style.
To be fair, in the photos, she is doing a chest circle layered with snake arms. Still photos are a cruel judge. I do agree that $13 is too much to pay to see the tutorial once. There should be a monthly fee to view classes.
Hi. Wonderful to have you here.
This was long ago so I don’t remember, but I don’t think it was a circle. A circle would look quite awkward when you hit the back part of the trajectory, yes.
I do sometimes wonder if it’s too harsh to go by still photos, but then I notice that there are some dancers whose videos you can pause anywhere anytime and you never catch them in an awkward position. Sera is one of them. Sarah Skinner another.